Lore Who wants to build a culture?

[thegraywatcher]

Greetings!

I had an idea for a potential new culture for chronicles, and I was wanting to see who might be interested in helping to build it.

The basic premise is a culture that developed over time to be focused on the principles of community, honor, and adaptability. They live in a land with poor soil and so have developed a system of merchants, mercenaries, and craftsmen to sustain themselves. Support one another, keep to your word, and never stop improving your skills and skill set.

I was thinking they could be from around this area between Vel Anir and Cortosi.


I'm feeling inspired by various groups. The Mandalorians from Star Wars, holy knight orders from the crusades, and Swiss people during the age of pike warfare.

So anyone else interested in working to create a new cultural group for chronicles with me with these basic concepts in mind?

 

[Haloshooter]

Sounds lucrative. I'd be down for putting in my two cents!

 

[Charity Briarthorne]

Ooh! This sounds fun! Count me in!

 

[thegraywatcher]

I personally want to be rather detailed about it. Things such as what foods they eat or don't eat. Odd customs and traditions that might not make sense to everyone else. Just all of it and the reasons why.

So for an example I was thinking they could be really attached to potatoes if their region is mountainous and with poor soil as potatoes refuse to not thrive wherever they are. Also they could have a tradition of wearing furs over their shoulders or just a single one. Maybe relate it to their hunting. I was also thinking they could be semi-nomadic if their region is mountainous as well. So they winter in the low lands around the coast or warm valleys and summer higher up in the mountains. So they generally have 2 cities filling the role of a single one in other places.

I was also thinking they might wear masks outside of their homeland as a way of maintaining this reputation their people have in foreign lands and boost that sense of unity amongst their culture that revolves around their communal mentality.

Plenty more things that could be gotten into. These are just some of my thoughts.

EDIT: Charity Briarthorne Haloshooter

 

[Tarathrieal]

I'm not much of a civilian 'culture' guy, but if you need somebody to help design martial and military traditions I'd be happy to give my ideas.

 

[Haloshooter]

All of those ideas sound amazing!

Some more random jumbled ideas for creative juices.

Which do they value more; Strength or Philosophy?
Do they value a highly trained and disciplined soldier unit over trying to compensate with numbers?

If they're a combat based culture I imagine farming would be a minimal concern in favor of hunting legendary beasts for food, potatoes as well as other subsistence type fare would be the extent of their vegetable diet (roots, tubers, ferns, berries, wild fruits and nuts), leadership would most likely be a meritocracy where the strongest leads.

I love the masked idea. The mental image of absolutely shredded warriors wearing cool masks is super appealing IMO.

As far as the location, it could be a mix of mountains and coastal. Like a Greek village carved into the side of the mountain with the crashing sea down below. Narrow footpaths provide access that could easily be defended by only a few warriors.
Maybe they could be a sort of scattered culture of small communities, but all of these little villages answer to the leader and can quickly come together to form a large and formidable force when the call goes out.

 

[Tarathrieal]

To expand on the idea of a semi-nomadic, pseudo-Greek mask wearing as well as the wearing of animal fur.

How about taking inspiration from one of the theorized versions of Sparta's unusual, non-Spartan allies, the Skiritai?

Some sculptures show them wielding no shield but instead wearing a thick animal fur draped over their non-weapon arm shoulder, with the paws tied around their neck. A sort of mobile, light shield; for fantasy flair lets say they hunt Komodo dragon sized avian lizards famed for their thick, slash resistant hides. Rather then furred, these creatures could be feathered; giving the shoulder animal skin a vibrant coloring.

Their masks could also be vibrant and possibly made of linen or thick cloth of some kind, form fitted to their face and part of a metallic helmet with a large feathered crest down the center.

Rather then be bow and arrow based hunters, they are Peltas style fighters; using pila or javelins and honing those skills by literally javelining these avian lizards out of the sky.

In war they include a large two handed pike, which is staked into the ground at an angle in front of them. They throw their javelins in mass, and as the enemy closes the front three blocks of the line transition to the pike while the rear line fans out and flanks with brutal, short range javelin throws before sliding back into the line.

They are lightly armored, maybe only wearing a Greek linen style chest protector.

As mercenaries for foreign armies and service they are famed as irregular skirmish troops. Faster then almost any other form of infantry, while not being as fragile as true ranged troops they pelt enemy lines with javelins while flanking. Furthermore they can work in tandem with ally cavalry due to their incredible running endurance and speed.

Their harsh environment and lack of domestic animals has caused them to be incredible endurance runners, able to run for illogical distance and with a pace most would consider a fast run. At sprint they are equal to some heavier mounted units.

They use this to sync with heavy cavalry, running at the flanks of a wedge charge of heavy cav they pelt enemy lines; weakening them before the cavalry crash and then pull back using their superior speed to prevent themselves from being caught in a melee.

Obviously this is just a spit ball idea, feel free to take any of this or none of it!

 

[thegraywatcher]

Haloshooter Sort of in line with what I was thinking. Instead of leaning so heavily into the typical "uh me strong" kind of warrior culture I was thinking they would more be warriors out of necessity rather than wanting to be the strongest. After all those rule of the strongest societies tend to not care so much for communal life.

The meritocracy works, but I was feeling they work hard as individuals to be the best and most skilled possible so as to contribute to the whole. The idea of the group being only as strong as their weakest member kind of deal.

That is also the idea behind the masks. They are meant to be a sign they come from said culture and thereby being treated based on their shared reputation. The rep acts as a shield against others trying to attack their homeland and to help them get jobs given how important to mercenaries your rep is. It also plays into their code of sticking to their word/deals.

Tarathrieal you are getting too stuck into the idea of mass unit tactics and less on individuals. Military wise they wouldn't be so focused on any individual weapon. They are looking to be elite fighters that can be fit into any role from guard to army. The endurance training does fit well. For the dress situation, I think fur or feathers either could work. Might be more an individual choice or some differences in which mountain they are from kind of deal.

For the masks, ones shaped like a face wouldn't work with what I mentioned to Halo. They aren't trying to become famous as an individual outside of their own people. They want to be sort of faceless to the outside world so as to boost the culture's rep and add an air of intimidation. A face implies a human is behind that mask. A pair of eyes staring out of the void could be anything.

 

[Haloshooter]

It sounds like what your wanting to go for is a hunter/gatherer society with stone walls and steel weapons. They are warriors cause "Hey, I killed a wyvern to feed my people, an enemy soldier can't be too difficult."
That's what I imagine a "warrior by necessity" to be.

Will the demographic be predominantly human? Or will there be other races as well?

I like Tarathrieal 's ideas in regards to the physical strength and feats that they're capable of, but that's also playing into my love for physically imposing and athletic characters. I get the feeling that you would prefer that they were better equipped over totally relying on physical training, you did mention the Mandalorians as an inspiration.

 

[Tarathrieal]

Understandable; I'm more of a "realism" oriented designed over a traditionally fantasy one so my ideas tend to reflect that.

I'll watch what you guys come up with interest!

 

[thegraywatcher]

Haloshooter My thoughts were more of "We have to raid our neighbors because we don't have X. Oh no, our neighbors are attacking us! We are good fighters maybe hiring ourselves out can be profitable." But yeah, it is the same idea more or less.

They aren't so hunter/gatherer. They would just focus less on large fields of crops and look to be doing more animal based agriculture and layered cropping. So like sheep, goats, pigs, cattle, etc for the animal side of things and then for their crops think of what a lot of Native American tribes did by having certain crops all growing together in the same space. The 3 sisters method of the Cherokee for example of corn, beans, and squash.

For diversity I specifically said culture so as not to limit race selection. Maybe they are naturally human but have welcomed in other races over time. Could have like a system were they identify people based on if they were born into the culture or adopted it.

As for Tarathrieal idea of physical strength, I don't see why they wouldn't try to rely on both it and equipment. The idea, as I said to him earlier, was to be as elite of fighters as possible so they could fit as many roles as possible. The whole weakest member thing again.

And Tarathrieal to address your idea of realism, I don't see how them not having a very strict military role or structure would naturally make them more fantastical or less real. The units you were talking about before were slotting themselves into in very specific kinds of armies. The Romans, Greeks, and many other cultures of the Bronze and Iron Age relied heavily on having strong cores of heavy infantry and filling in their gaps with allies and mercenaries. So it only makes sense more mercenary units of the time relied on said tactics as it was what got them paid.

When you start to look at the time of the crusades and later on the kinds of mercenaries you begin to see changed. More heavy cavalry and heavy infantry for the crusades. The Swiss were a mixed unit that was pretty self reliant with the whole Pike and Shot tactics they used. Italians also had their heavy crossbowmen. Just depends on the period on what mercenaries did.

For this culture I figured if mercenary work was going to be so core to their way of bringing in resources then they would not want to limit themselves to a singular tactic. They could hire out to a wider range of clients and could adapt to the changes in tactics more easily. Similar in that way to the Swiss. They did a lot of adapting to the various tactics of the pike period and only really died out because of guns becoming the dominate and near only weapon being used after a point. That killed a lot of the mass mercenary hiring that had been going on before. Less experience and training is needed to shoot a musket vs wielding a pike in a pike formation.

Now I do think some of your ideas could be useful with individual tribes or clans in the culture gravitating more towards certain tactics. A common thing to see throughout history after all. Look at the Germans and Celts as examples. You needed to look at the tribe to know if their military was more infantry, auxilary, or cavalry based.

 

[Tarathrieal]

The realism claim wasn't on their role as mercenaries, it was my over emphasis on their battlefield tactics and was me levying a criticism at my own biases in focusing on that small detail.

I'm not going to get into a conversation about the role of mercenaries throughout the eras, as I feel that level minutia isn't entirely relevant to a fantasy setting in which conventional tactics relevance is so nebulous in the face of magical and fantastical. My own bias not with standing in describing as it's what I enjoy.

The goal my ideas had of 'specializing' them was in general to give them a unique, individual character. As you mentioned, the Swiss may have been able to effectively adapt their style over time to the changing of the eras but were fundamentally most known for their 'Pike'.

This is a defining feature, a 'specialization' in name if not in reality which has allowed their mythos to survive long after the Swiss have lost relevance as a meaningful warrior culture. Gustavus Adolphus may have ended their dominance, but because of their role as elite pikemen they live on in our thoughts. It is the same reason the Landsknechte remain so known despite the fact they actually only used the Zweihander in limited numbers; they are known because of it. I feel in a fantasy setting, in which the actual relevance of battlefield tactics is mostly fluff it is better to build a it on the 'mythical' versions of history rather then more nuanced reality.

A true 'jack of all trades' group of men, who adapt to any job and have no specialization is a totally fine thing to go with. It's just not something that sparks my own individual interest, and I was simply offering ideas to be considered.

 

[thegraywatcher]

Tarathrieal tbf to the Swiss, being a pike unit was about all you could be at that time given the start of warfare at the time. But like you said, that is getting too deep into things that aren't relevant.

I do enjoy the input. I put this up after all so people could work together on forming the culture. Im not opposed to the idea of specialization just that I think that aspect would be less on the scale of the culture as a whole and more on the scale of the individual subgroups within the culture. AKA the tribes or clans. I think the idea works very well there as well as your earlier suggestion of some variations on their dress.

If it doesn't spark your interest though that is fine. I'm wanting to focus on making them more than just a military/mercenary group. Why I also mentioned merchants and craftsmen. More than 1 way to get reliable resources and gold after all. Plus not everyone is good at fighting but might be good at other things. If you got a good input for those other aspects I'd like to hear them.

 

[Tarathrieal]

I'm not that well read on the economics of the medieval era, but I will offer one small idea.

What about one tribe being a type of Nepalese sherpa? Elite mountaineers who are hired as specialist for mountainous explorers and high altitude hunts. It would be a small relevance to their over all income, but might be fun way to add some throw away flavor.

As for craft that is above my pay grade, any ideas I have would probably be pretty small time at a cultural level. Like maybe taking the idea of those feathered lizards somehow extracting the color from their feathers to make incredibly vibrant, rich dyes?

 

[thegraywatcher]

Tarathrieal I'm not sure if they would want foreigners trekking around their mountains, but it is an idea to consider if they are cool with letting people in. The dye idea I honestly like. Dyes have always been lucrative, especially the more vibrant kinds that held up well. That could be a good industry for them that would see work for all levels of their society.

Hunters could be after animals that provide good pigments and miners after minerals then just the typical foraging for the herbal dyes. Provide/sell those to the craftsmen who actually make the dye and then either use it in their crafts or sell it to merchants who take it to foreign markets. And the merchants could use the services of their mercenaries to help protect their products. Mercenaries that likely would be hunting, mining, or foraging in their off time. Makes a nice big circle of everyone supporting each other economically.

 

[Haloshooter]

Sounds like you're wanting to lean into the Mandalorian inspiration, I wasn't sure how deep you wanted to draw from them. They seem to fit what you're describing pretty well especially if you look at their early pre-space history where they killed Krayet Dragons as a sort of ritualistic hunt.

While there are different tribes with different leaders and different customs and traditions there is one culture that binds them together, they are an idea more than a faction or race... "And you can't kill ideas"...

Having the basic farming principal that your going for seems sufficient, naturally not all members would be hunters/warriors/mercenaries and that could give them some trade ability with their crafts and such.
It also sounds like they might be more advanced than any tribal situation so their crafts can reflect that.
Although being bigger on hunting for food it would be difficult for them to form any permanent living structures, but they needn't necessarily be nomadic. As you described earlier they could have several temporary homes that they move around with whenever the animals move on.

 

[thegraywatcher]

Haloshooter they aren't relying on hunting for food. Hunting and foraging would supplement their herds and layered crop fields. Hence being semi-nomadic as they would move more based on the weather than how the wild herds migrate. The weather determining where the best crop fields would be or best best grazing fields are.

 

[Jakub]

Haloshooter they aren't relying on hunting for food. Hunting and foraging would supplement their herds and layered crop fields. Hence being semi-nomadic as they would move more based on the weather than how the wild herds migrate. The weather determining where the best crop fields would be or best best grazing fields are.

What about pillaging for resources other than food? Attacking smaller settlements to get cloth, metal, jewelry, slaves, etc.

 

[thegraywatcher]

Jakub I don't see them taking slaves. As for pillaging, that would be early history. Moving away from that to trade and mercenary work would be more profitable and stable. You see the same with all cultures who had limited resources and started pillaging. They moved away from it as it got less viable the longer and more often they did it.

The steppe tribes and norse cultures being the most well known examples. Both shifted to trade and it served them better in the long run.

 

[Jakub]

Jakub I don't see them taking slaves. As for pillaging, that would be early history. Moving away from that to trade and mercenary work would be more profitable and stable. You see the same with all cultures who had limited resources and started pillaging. They moved away from it as it got less viable the longer and more often they did it.

The steppe tribes and norse cultures being the most well known examples. Both shifted to trade and it served them better in the long run.

I meant more-so in general when they are expanding onto someone else's territory (if they are) and whether they would or wouldn't resort to pillaging in that case. Not only pillaging as their main source of income.

 

[thegraywatcher]

Jakub They aren't really looking to expand into their neighbor's territories. I know I haven't explicitly stated this but they are kind of isolationist. Not hardcore ones but still not looking to start anything with anyone else. Why they work so hard on their rep as merchants and mercenaries outside their homeland. It keeps people from wanting to pick a fight by invading.

 

[Haloshooter]

So here's the vibe I'm picking up.

They are an Isolationist culture of merchants and mercenaries, to the exclusion of outsiders and people not a part of their culture keeping trade secrets secure within their hidden lifestyles and traditions. Their reputation is elite and professional and it's all down to their mask.
People from other cultures recognize them by this mask and know what they're capable of by their reputation.

What they are capable of, aside from physical prowess in general, is a wide range of speciality. Naturally not every warrior has the same level of versatility and many would pick a specialty but no single warrior is the same in his varied skill sets, yet all are the same in the mask.

 

[thegraywatcher]

Haloshooter well they aren't true isolationists, but they definitely lean more that way. The rest I would say is spot on. Just the warrior bit I would also extend to their merchants as well for rep. Good on their word and in masks as well.

For warriors it isn't just masks but also helmets they could be wearing. The items just have the same faceless design about them that says "I'm one of this culture" so people instantly know who they are dealing with. Again it works as a form of intimidation for the mercs and as a sort of id for the merchants. If you know they are from that culture then there might be less need for papers and the likes.

 

[thegraywatcher]

I suppose they are isolationists. Just not like Imperial China was there at the end on restricting all trade to just 1 port. They don't restrict their ports or land based trading hubs, but would restrict anyone from going deeper into their land past that. So yeah, isolationist is a good fit for them.

 

[thegraywatcher]

So any more input from everyone? I'd really like to hear some thoughts on the other elements of their culture. Their religion. Their traditions. Any myths or stories? Any more input for their crafts and merchants?

For religion I thought maybe about doing something with gryphons. Mountainous region and they raise animals. Gryphons would fit and maybe the awe and terror could lead to some kind of worship of a divine catbird or some deity that the gryphons could be attached to.

Any thoughts?